Re: c/c++: a new adventure

["Derold" <bro1@cyberhighway.net>]

hey!  going in the opposite direction is just as hard.  Being a asm hacker I
can throw enough together to finish an unoptimized program in a couple of
days without error.  Granted it could take me up to three years to get the
best speed possible on the target machine.  I am now trying my hand at games
on multiple machines.  That means optimization on one could be crap on
another.  So I'm hoping to leave it up to the compilers to hit the target
closer than I can on most machines and those it can't I'll optimize in asm.

Derold

PS It would still take allot of time to get the optimum on those separate
machines.
    Thanx for listening.


----- Original Message -----
From: <EnderWiggenRules@aol.com>
To: <gameprogrammer@gameprogrammer.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: c/c++: a new adventure


> In a message dated 8/29/00 4:18:39 PM Central Daylight Time,
> EnderWiggenRules@aol.com writes:
>
> << << most programmers actually are ridiculous in begging for that last
drop
>   of speed. this is really pointless, as most systems have enough hp
>   negate the difference between c and cpp. using c with directx is prolly
>   an absolute bear, and i dont think anyone would reccomend it (except
>   maybe that assembler guy...) >> >>
>
> As the assembly guy (I think), I feel responsible to say that assembly
> language is taught all wrong. (I realize that this could result in another
> flame war, so I probably should have changed the subject header. Oh well.)
> The language of assembly language is NOT hard - it's doing anything useful
> that's hard. The concept is hard for an experienced C++ programmer to
> understand, but that's only because it's so different from C++. Once you
get
> past the concept, and you learn all the weird looking commands, you're
set.
> Well, not really. Like I said, doing anythiny useful with assembly
language
> is hard, but that's mostly because it takes longer, especially at first.
With
> experience, though, more of it comes naturally.
>
> Another migrane of assembly language: it's hard to beat the compiler. This
> wasn't true five years ago, but with every new version came more
> optimizations, almost to the point where there's no need for assembly
> language - especially with a powerful system. Note I say almost. One of my
> crackpot theories is that compilers will NEVER be able to beat the REAL
> assembly-language programmers in the world. I don't consider myself one of
> the "real" assembly programmers, though I do work with a few. The code
these
> people put out is brilliant - and I couldn't IMAGINE a compiler ever
making
> faster code (don't underestimate this - these people are nothing short of
> genius). Now, I may not be a genius, but I do have a few tricks up my
sleeve,
> and I can tell you that beating the compiler by a substantial amount is
> possible (and sometimes worth the extra headaches). With the ever-evolving
> computer, you probably won't need this in game-programming in most cases.
> However, if you have time for some strange reason, and consider yourself a
> pretty good assembly language programmer, you can consider the option of
> maybe rewriting a few routines into assembly language and seeing if you
get
> lucky.
>
> I program assembly. That doesn't mean you need to. I'd recommend learning
> assembly and looking at the output your compiler makes. Of course, many
> programmers don't have time for this, and won't need to bother. However,
my
> specialization IS optimization on graphic routines, and I can tell you
that
> the key to fulfilling your blit-speed-per-frame dreams has something to do
> with assembly.
>
> And, referring to the quote at the top of this e-mail, I would NOT
recommend
> reprogramming Direct X for C. Too much effort for a crackpot SDK.
>
> -Ender Wiggin
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